# Devices seem to not be syncing
**URL:** https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799
**Category:** Support
**Created:** [February 13, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799 "2023-02-13T21:41:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/1 "2023-02-13T21:41:05Z")
I have a folder that’s successfully synchronized between three devices. I now wish to add a fourth; a Raspberry Pi/10TB USB drive combo for offsite backup purposes.
The problem is that the sync file count is stuck at zero. The sync folder count matches, but no files are reported copied. The USB drive is thrashing furiously (I’m running an onsite seed before I move the setup offsite). Also, the Syncthing service on the RPi keeps crashing every few hours.
It’s been this way for four days. The service crash, however, has only been occurring for the past day or so.
This is my Dev folder hierarchy, so it contains tens of thousands of small files 1-2 kilobytes in size. I don’t know whether this has anything to do with it. But I do know that my RPi 3 was overheating at +89°C until I temporarily installed the fan from my decommissioned RPi 4. There’s no appreciable network traffic in either direction.
There do appear many temp files on the target:
So something is doing something. But the reported file count remains at zero nonetheless.
Here’re my stats:
_ **Source:** _
  
_ **Target:** _
   
I figure the iNotify error will subside once everything is synchronized. Correct me, please, if I’m mistaken on that point.
What’s going on here? How do I kick this thing into gear?
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/2 "2023-02-13T22:24:14Z")
FYI I fixed the iNotify error per the documentation.
---
### Author:  [@tomasz86](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/tomasz86)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/3 "2023-02-14T14:21:37Z")
Would you be willing to update Syncthing on the Raspberry Pi (see [https://apt.syncthing.net](https://apt.syncthing.net))? This may not fix the problem, but it could be a good starting point. Your current version is quite outdated.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/4 "2023-02-15T00:00:58Z")
> Would you be willing to update Syncthing on the Raspberry Pi … ?
Funny you should mention that… I just finished doing that very thing.
After reading [this](https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/5568) and [this](https://docs.syncthing.net/users/faq.html#why-is-the-sync-so-slow), I’ve arrived at the conclusion that we’re looking at a comedy of errors here.
First up, I believe that the Achilles’ Heel of this otherwise great tool called Syncthing is the initial seed sync, particularly with a large set of small files.
Next up, I’ve decided to take it on the chin for trying to do this on an RPi—and an RPi _ **3** _, no less! Weak CPU, low RAM, USB 2.0… well, one might say it’s got it all.
So I’ve upgraded, removed the folder from Syncthing, dumped the partition and started over from scratch. This time I seeded using `rsync`. That took about 10 hours or more, but at least I could glance at it and track progress every now and then.
I recreated the target folder, but I have it paused right now. I’m waiting to see what happens with another synced folder that contains only a single 728MiB file. The bytes themselves are copied over, but the file is still named `.syncthing.4 Hours of Mozart.mp4.tmp` and the folder status still shows a big red `"Out of Sync"`. It’s been that way for a few hours now, so I’m not sure what to make of it. I guess it’s still hashing. FWIW, `htop` doesn’t show Syncthing as using up anything significant.
I’ll give it some more time, in hopes of turning on the big Dev folder once it’s done. I can hear the USB drive chugging away, and there’s nothing else going on right now, so it must be doing _something_.
I’ll continue my progress reports here as necessary.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/5 "2023-02-15T00:29:47Z")
Update: no chugging.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/6 "2023-02-15T01:38:43Z")
Update: I just ran a quick script to calculate a SHA256 hash on the 728MiB file. It took 23 seconds. On the other hand, the Syncthing folder has been displaying `"Out of Sync"` for at least five hours now. The USB drive is silent.
I’m loath to turn on the big Dev folder if I can’t even get a single file like this to sync.
What gives? What could be the holdup? Is there a way to check on it?
---
### Author:  [@calmh](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/calmh)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 6:11am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/7 "2023-02-15T06:11:09Z")
Post a screenshot of the gui on the pi side, with the folder expanded.
---
### Author:  [@gadget](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/gadget)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 6:12am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/8 "2023-02-15T06:12:14Z")
> [@InteXX](#):
>
> What gives? What could be the holdup? Is there a way to check on it?
- Is the “OFFSITE” device the Raspberry Pi 3? (which model exactly?)
- If it is the RPi 3, is the networking wired or wireless?
- If it is the RPi 3, are Syncthing’s database files stored on the micro SD card?
- What type of drive is the 10TB USB drive? (make and model would be very helpful)
- How is the 10TB USB drive formatted?
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 9:00am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/9 "2023-02-15T09:00:53Z")
> a comedy of errors
And what a comedy it was, indeed! I’m still laughing 😒
In the end, it turned out to be a permissions problem. As you’ll note [here](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/permission-denied-on-usb-drive/19769), I’ve been laboring under the requirement to sync to an NTFS partition. Well, the painful lesson in all of this is that Syncthing and Linux and NTFS don’t play well together. Syncthing was choking because it couldn’t run a proper `chown` where it needed to.
Sure, one might be able to take a bunch of trips 'round Robin Hood’s barn and MAYBE get it to work under NTFS, as @gadget describes in his [excellent answer](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/permission-denied-on-usb-drive/19769/3), but why go to the trouble when there’s an easier way (at least for my scenario)?
Bear with me…
Once I had an ext4 partition, I was able to set the directory’s owner to the user under which Syncthing is running, and then to set its permissions to allow read/write by anyone. Once that was done, I created a Syncthing folder and watched in absolute adoration as the synchronized file count started climbing immediately. Lots of nice network traffic, too.
And now I remember how it managed to work under RPi/NTFS all those many years ago (see the [other thread](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/permission-denied-on-usb-drive/19769)). I was running the service under root! For shame, for shame…
So I take back all those nasty things I said about Syncthing’s heel. Apparently somebody came along after Thetis half-finished the job and turned Syncthing upright and doused his foot as well. I must have been looking the other way and missed that.
As far as disaster recovery into a Windows environment, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
VirtualBox is a Type 2 hypervisor, which means it supports USB pass-through. In the unlikely event of a data disaster at this scale (it’d have to be a pretty serious situation to bring me to the far reaches of my plan like this), I’ll spin up an Ubuntu VM and use it to relay the files to an NTFS partition somewhere.
Either that or I’ll just turn the whole thing around and recover the files with Syncthing, simply the reverse of how they got on the drive in the first place.
Easy, peasy, Japanesey.
Thanks, everybody, for chiming in.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/10 "2023-02-15T09:18:22Z")
> [@gadget](#):
>
> - Is the “OFFSITE” device the Raspberry Pi 3? (which model exactly?)
> - _[3b, link [here](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C6Q2GSY/). Bought it in Aug '17. My, they’ve really gone up!]_
>
> - If it is the RPi 3, is the networking wired or wireless?
> - _[Wi-Fi. Slow. Like molasses. I’m thinking about moving the whole setup into the other room, so I can cable up and get Gbps.]_
>
> - If it is the RPi 3, are Syncthing’s database files stored on the micro SD card?
> - _[Good question, I don’t know! How does one go about determining that?]_
>
> - What type of drive is the 10TB USB drive? (make and model would be very helpful)
> - _[WD Elements, link [here](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G3QMPB5/).]_
>
> - How is the 10TB USB drive formatted?
> - _[Was NTFS, now is ext4.]_
See my full reply for more info.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/11 "2023-02-15T11:01:05Z")
> [@calmh](#):
>
> Post a screenshot of the gui on the pi side, with the folder expanded.
Screen shot (_after_ switching to ext4)
---
### Author:  [@gadget](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/gadget)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/12 "2023-02-15T23:25:31Z")
> [@InteXX](#):
>
> > [@gadget](#):
> >
> > - Is the “OFFSITE” device the Raspberry Pi 3? (which model exactly?)
> > - _[3b, link [here](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C6Q2GSY/). Bought it in Aug '17. My, they’ve really gone up!]_
Yeah, trying to spot a RPi 4 in stock – and selling at MSRP – has been rarer than people spotting the Loch Ness Monster. 😏
The RPi 3 B has enough horsepower for Syncthing with a little work tweaking the setup.
> [@](#):
>
> - If it is the RPi 3, is the networking wired or wireless?
> - _[Wi-Fi. Slow. Like molasses. I’m thinking about moving the whole setup into the other room, so I can cable up and get Gbps.]_
Although slow, it might seem fast compared to the Ethernet interface because it’s 100BASE-TX on the RPi 3 (my earlier post about the RPi 3 B+ might be of interest: [Too slow for school - #5 by gadget](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/too-slow-for-school/19727/5)).
> [@](#):
>
> - If it is the RPi 3, are Syncthing’s database files stored on the micro SD card?
> - _[Good question, I don’t know! How does one go about determining that?]_
By default the database files are located near Syncthing’s config file. On Linux it’s usually under `~/.config/syncthing/` in a subdirectory like `index-v0.14.0.d` for the user running Syncthing.
> [@](#):
>
> - What type of drive is the 10TB USB drive? (make and model would be very helpful)
> - _[WD Elements, link [here](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G3QMPB5/).]_
It looks like your 10TB WD Elements (WDBWLG0100HBK-NESN) is [CMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpendicular_recording) rather than [SMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_magnetic_recording), which is good because SMR + lots of small files + lots of disk writes often doesn’t work well (especially when combined with NTFS).
> [@](#):
>
> - How is the 10TB USB drive formatted?
> - _[Was NTFS, now is ext4.]_
Much better… 🤓
> [@InteXX](#):
>
> VirtualBox is a Type 2 hypervisor, which means it supports USB pass-through. In the unlikely event of a data disaster at this scale (it’d have to be a pretty serious situation to bring me to the far reaches of my plan like this), I’ll spin up an Ubuntu VM and use it to relay the files to an NTFS partition somewhere.
A creative solution that’d work, but a few other options that might be of interest… 🙂
- Linux Reader ([https://diskinternals.com/linux-reader/](https://diskinternals.com/linux-reader/))
- explore2fs ([https://explore2fspe.sourceforge.io/](https://explore2fspe.sourceforge.io/))
- Ext2 IFS For Windows ([http://fs-driver.org/](http://fs-driver.org/))
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/13 "2023-02-17T00:15:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The RPi 3 B has enough horsepower for Syncthing with a little work tweaking the setup.
I could use some of that right now! See my [latest post](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/initial-sync-still-deathly-slow-on-the-rpi/19813).
> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > - If it is the RPi 3, are Syncthing’s database files stored on the micro SD card?
> > - _[Good question, I don’t know! How does one go about determining that?]_
>
> By default the database files are located near Syncthing’s config file. On Linux it’s usually under `~/.config/syncthing/` in a subdirectory like `index-v0.14.0.d` for the user running Syncthing.
Is it wise to put them somewhere else? If so, is that a how-to that’s documented somewhere? FAQ isn’t giving up anything, nor is Usage TOC. (At least nothing jumped right out at me.)
> [@](#):
>
> It looks like your 10TB WD Elements (WDBWLG0100HBK-NESN) is [CMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpendicular_recording) rather than [SMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_magnetic_recording), which is good because SMR + lots of small files + lots of disk writes often doesn’t work well (especially when combined with NTFS).
Obee kaybee… how did you manage to go about spotting _that_ one?
> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > - How is the 10TB USB drive formatted?
> > - _[Was NTFS, now is ext4.]_
>
> Much better… 🤓
😇
> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > VirtualBox is a Type 2 hypervisor, which means it supports USB pass-through.
>
> A creative solution that’d work, but a few other options that might be of interest… 🙂
>
> - Linux Reader ([https://diskinternals.com/linux-reader/](https://diskinternals.com/linux-reader/))
> - explore2fs ([https://explore2fspe.sourceforge.io/](https://explore2fspe.sourceforge.io/))
> - Ext2 IFS For Windows ([http://fs-driver.org/](http://fs-driver.org/))
Interesting, thanks! I’ll have a look.
---
### Author:  [@gadget](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/gadget)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2023, 5:46am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/14 "2023-02-17T05:46:33Z")
> [@InteXX](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > By default the database files are located near Syncthing’s config file. On Linux it’s usually under `~/.config/syncthing/` in a subdirectory like `index-v0.14.0.d` for the user running Syncthing.
>
> Is it wise to put them somewhere else? If so, is that a how-to that’s documented somewhere? FAQ isn’t giving up anything, nor is Usage TOC. (At least nothing jumped right out at me.)
Relocating Syncthing’s database can be beneficial depending on the type of storage media, and even filesystem that’s in use.
On an RPi, the usual default is the SD card. Because a $5-$10 SD card typically isn’t designed for extensive write cycles, the card could fail in just a few months depending on how many files and directories Syncthing is tracking.
If you don’t use the SD card, storing it on an external USB-connected SSD is a viable option (even a $20 SSD can offer a 170 [TBW](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#SSD_failure) endurance rating).
Syncthing has a `--data` flag for setting the database directory and a `--home` flag for setting the base directory for both Syncthing’s `config.xml` and database. For more details, see [https://docs.syncthing.net/users/config.html#description](https://docs.syncthing.net/users/config.html#description)
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2023, 6:41am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/15 "2023-02-17T06:41:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Relocating Syncthing’s database can be beneficial depending on the type of storage media, and even filesystem that’s in use.
>
> On an RPi, the usual default is the SD card. Because a $5-$10 SD card typically isn’t designed for extensive write cycles, the card could fail in just a few months depending on how many files and directories Syncthing is tracking.
>
> If you don’t use the SD card, storing it on an external USB-connected SSD is a viable option (even a $20 SSD can offer a 170 [TBW](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#SSD_failure) endurance rating).
>
> Syncthing has a `--data` flag for setting the database directory and a `--home` flag for setting the base directory for both Syncthing’s `config.xml` and database. For more details, see [https://docs.syncthing.net/users/config.html#description](https://docs.syncthing.net/users/config.html#description)
Bingo. That’s what I’ll do then.
AFTER I recover from all of this.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/16 "2023-02-18T02:17:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Syncthing has a `--data` flag for setting the database directory and a `--home` flag …
The `systemd` service file shows single hyphens for the arguments, while the docs indicate double hyphens.
What’s up with that? Can it be either?
---
### Author:  [@gadget](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/gadget)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2023, 5:21am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/17 "2023-02-18T05:21:01Z")
> [@InteXX](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Syncthing has a `--data` flag for setting the database directory and a `--home` flag …
>
> The `systemd` service file shows single hyphens for the arguments, while the docs indicate double hyphens.
Both syntaxes are supported by Syncthing.
> [@](#):
>
> What’s up with that? Can it be either?
Programs that start out on Unix/Linux follow the convention where single character options use a single hyphen while longer options use double hyphens (e.g., `-a` vs. `--archive` in rsync).
The syntax is very useful for concatenating multiple options (e.g. -rlptgoD) without clashing with a long format option.
Unfortunately, not so orderly on Windows – single hyphen, forward slash, no case-sensitivity, etc. I rarely ever see double hyphens used for long format options.
---
### Author:  [@tomasz86](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/tomasz86)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2023, 7:14am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/18 "2023-02-18T07:14:45Z")
Syncthing had originally supported only the single hyphen version. It was just ~2 years ago that the double hyphen variant was introduced. Not that it matters much right now, but if you’ve got to use an older Syncthing version for some reason (e.g. due to the OS incompatibility), then it’s something good to know.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/19 "2023-02-18T08:15:34Z")
> [@gadget](#):
>
> Programs that start out on Unix/Linux follow the convention where single character options use a single hyphen while longer options use double hyphens (e.g., `-a` vs. `--archive` in rsync).
>
> The syntax is very useful for concatenating multiple options (e.g. -rlptgoD) without clashing with a long format option.
Got it, thanks.
---
### Author:  [@InteXX](https://forum.syncthing.net/u/InteXX)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://forum.syncthing.net/t/devices-seem-to-not-be-syncing/19799/20 "2023-02-18T08:16:47Z")
> [@tomasz86](#):
>
> Syncthing had originally supported only the single hyphen version. It was just ~2 years ago that the double hyphen variant was introduced. Not that it matters much right now, but if you’ve got to use an older Syncthing version for some reason (e.g. due to the OS incompatibility), then it’s something good to know.
Got it, thanks.
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