[archived] Introducing Pulse, and ind.ie

Announce
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It failed because it was confusing as all hell to use. joindiaspora.org was invite only, and no one explained the federation layer effectively so users saw all these separate pods and naturally thought they were all individual unlinked servers. It also failed because there wasn’t a concise marketing strategy.

It’s possible, you can base it off Android, Firefox OS, OpenWebOS or some other open source mobile OS and provide a script that will rip out the appropriate drivers for your device from its firmware and put them in your Indie ROM. Patents don’t really become an issue unless you’re involving distribution of hardware. Lawsuits over patenting software that’s independent of hardware distribution is rare.

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IIRC, Sailfish already uses Android drivers on non-Android platforms. That technology is open source, so they can re-use that.

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Also meant as a reply to hobarrera.

And then there’s also CyanogenMod, OMNI, Paranoid Android, AOKP (Android Open Kang Project), (continue with even more AOSP forks), and the FSF’s backed Replicant (though this one is pretty useless as they stripped their Android port of any binary blobs to make it crawl and leave the better part of the hardware in a dysfunctional state because it won’t operate without the binary blobs).

Having a truly open OS for your smartphone, if you for a moment drop any negative stance towards binary firmware blobs, is already doable today; flash a custom recovery (given your smartphone SoC vendor was kind enough to provide the freedom by not encrypting the boot loader to lock you out), flash your favorite Android port (or compile it your own), leave out the “gapps” ZIP and you’re free of evil.

However, the teaser on ind.ie talks about a smartphone (which implies “hardware from scratch”) and not just “yet another Android fork because we need yet another one”. Like I said, I’m curious to learn more once their Kickstarter goes live… that could be interesting.

Anyway, better to leave it at this as we’re drifting somewhat off-topic (though the title also mentions “introducing ind.ie”)

EDIT: Oh, by the way hobarrera: Taking a known-to-work Android port (i.e. Sailfish to stick to your example) and using it as a base for your own smartphone design doesn’t mean you just cleared yourself from any patent ramifications. If you go “mass production” and “commercial sale” you have to satisfy patent licensing among a bag of other things. Once you sell stuff commercially to make a dime there are patent owners who want their piece of your cake.

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I would have thought that Syncthing was far, far more memorable than Pulse, and I don’t see anything particularly visual or emotive about the name Pulse, personally. I’ve used other software before with the name pulse ( http://zutubi.com/ ), and a quick search finds at least one more ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_(application) ), so I would have thought that the name Pulse would pretty much qualify as being taken already. And the name Pulse gives zero indication as to what the program does, whereas Syncthing very much tells you something about what it does, and honestly, if the name Syncthing is too technical for someone, then I question that they should be using it in the first place. The only thing technical about the name is the term sync, which anyone using software like this should know, and bittorrent sync - the main competing program - has sync in its name, so it’s a term that anyone looking for this kind of software is going to be looking for.

Honestly, I see nothing good about the name Pulse for this project, whereas I thought that Syncthing was a pretty good name. Obviously, I have no real say in what the name is, and the project may be able to get by fine with a worse name (one would hope that having a solid program would matter a lot more than its name), but I really think that renaming it to Pulse was a mistake, and I’d urge that the folks who do have a say in the name rethink that decision.

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I have to agree with the rest here about the name change. I heard pulse and I was confused because that’s an app that I have on my tablets and phone that is a news aggregator. Syncthing is cool, and unique. There’s no reason to change it. I see what was trying to be done, but it seems that the users disagree here with changing things.

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Syncthing or Pulse. For me both names are fine, because the software is a great program.

I am happy to see all the new developers and helping hands, and i want that Pulse and Syncthing become an outstanding program.

What I fail to understand is why the namechange is needed. As far as I understand ind.ie wants to use Pul-thing as an underlying transfer engine. So the users would not come in contact with Pul-thing, during the normal use of the Heartbeat application. All the effort to change the name for something that the user doesnt see in the end?

If I change:

Heartbeat is a social network client that is private by default. It’s peer-to-peer and uses a distributed synchronisation engine called Pulse. You can use Heartbeat to share your thoughts, photos, or anything else privately across all your devices.

into this:

Heartbeat is a social network client that is private by default. It’s peer-to-peer and uses a distributed synchronisation engine. You can use Heartbeat to share your thoughts, photos, or anything else privately across all your devices.

Then it has the same meaning, but just doesn’t mention the name. The distributed synchronisation engine is important, but name of it will not be a everyday used word when talking about Heartbeat.

That said, I am eager to see what happens on the ind.ie site and how the project is developing. I wish you all the best for this tough, but painfully needed target.

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I also agree about the name - The new name is not memorable at all and confusing because a search brings up all kinds of stuff: newsreader, medical supplies, health checks, other apps, etc. - it’s a too common word. “Pulse” does not fit this great piece of software, especially if lots of people look for a BT Sync alternative…

If the name change is really a must - may I suggest “syncpulse” (other ideas: “pulsesync” or “pulsync”)

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If the Marketing budget is substantial, you can give the product an abstract name, and using the conventional reach x frequency dynamic, you will eventually imprint the new name on the target audience.

On the other hand, if the Marketing budget is closer to zero, then a name that describes the function or benefit of the product makes more sense.

Which leads me to question if Pulse / Syncthing / (Whatever) will remain a standalone product in the longer term. Is the ind.ie team comfortable with a sync product roadmap that supports a wide spectrum of devices and Operating Systems, including those that will be competing against your envisioned OS and mobile device?

If the answer is “Yes”, then choosing the best possible name for the sync product is highly relevant. If the answer is “No”, then it doesn’t matter - as “indie phone” would become the only brand name that will be relevant.

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Sailfish is not an Android port, it’s a derivate or Meego, with an additional option to run android apps. It has been massed produced and sold by Jolla.

The OS itself doesn’t have patent issues, but I’m not sure about the hardware (I’m betting there are some patents involved, and that’s probably unavoidable).

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FYI: There is another issue with the naming. There is an audio server for linux that is called Pulse or PulseAudio and reserves the name libpulse on debian and ubuntu package repository. The server itself is packaged as pulseaudio so in that case it will not cause conflicts when packaging pulse.

https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=wheezy&searchon=names&keywords=pulse http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/

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I know that a very smart group of people have given a lot of thought to the new names, but I have to jump in and say that I also think Syncthing is much better than Pulse. I’m no developer, but I read and watch a lot of tech news (stay with me here.) I originally found Syncthing when it was mentioned in the Linux Action Show as an alternative to BitTorrent Sync. At the time, I thought, “Syncthing? That’s an unprofessional name.” A few weeks went by, though, and when I needed a program to sync files between my desktop and my web server, I remembered relatively quickly: Syncthing. It was easy to search and find, and when I saw the website and began reading up on it, I realized bit by bit that this was the program I was looking for. I was a bit scared off by the fact that there’s not GUI (at least for Linux), but I learned to use the web interface and became quite happy with the setup. I liked that I could specify how often the program checks for file changes, the requirement of having both ends authenticate a connection, and some other things that BitTorrent Sync was missing.

When I found out about the branding change, I was initially very pleased with the clean new website. I thought that both the site and the name were much more professional than they used to be. However, the more I’ve thought about the change, the more I’ve realized that it’s a bad idea. One thing that strikes me is that the Pulse homepage is the subdirectory of another website, rather than its own website like Syncthing was. This immediately tells me that Pulse exists for Ind.ie’s “Project Stratosphere,” which IS featured on the front page. (The page says that “it’s not an all-or-nothing moonshot,” but it also says that “every decision we take in the design and development of the network and the ecosystem takes the design of the phone into consideration.”) Another thing I don’t like is that an unpersonalized search for Pulse doesn’t have the new website anywhere visible. Not to mention, I never would have searched for Pulse in the first place, because when I hear the folks on LAS say something like “Pulse,” I immediately discard it as another neo-disruptive “breakthrough” that won’t last very long (can’t think of any examples right now, presumably because they have been discarded as aforementioned.) The quirky name of “Syncthing” was exactly why I was able to remember it in the midst of a dozen other stories.

Crowd-sourced phones and social networking designs are a dime a dozen at this point. In fact, indie companies are a dime a dozen, which is why the very name “Ind.ie” makes me nervous. It sounds like calling a company “Startup,” and startups don’t usually survive very long. I don’t see Project Stratosphere, Heartbeat, or the Indienet succeeding (and those would all be in quotes if it didn’t look massively cluttered.) Now I know what you’re going to think. “Of COURSE they’re going to succeed. They’re my creation and they’re exactly what the world needs!” Okay, that’s fine. That’s great, because I do like the IDEAS of the Indienet. But as other posters (such as bigbear2nd) said, the name of the sync client means absolutely nothing for the brand of the social network. You want to use Syncthing? Then use it for your project, and contribute your development skills to the Syncthing project. You don’t like the name? Don’t tell people unless they ask. Heartbeat can be powered by “an uncentralized syncing program” just as well as it can be powered by “Pulse” (the former is more descriptive anyway.) I know that it’s a business decision and that the new team’s probably not going to cede to the opposition, but I really, really hope that you move the name of the syncing program back to Syncthing. I wish the best of luck to the entire Ind.ie project, but I don’t want to see my favorite sync program die because some revolutionary just had to make the name more suitable for his brand. Pulse (as a name) only works as long as you can point to Ind.ie’s website, and I’m afraid that when (if) Ind.ie falls, Pulse will too. Right now, clicking on the “Download” button for Pulse takes you to the Syncthing github page. That means that it’s not too late to change the name back. Nobody would hold it against you.

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You sir, have the same opinion as I do, and exactly the same arguments as I do. By the end of the day, it’s just a name, but I feel that a name which explains what it does is much better than a name which is there only for romantic reasons to fit the brand or the love story Aral wants to create.

I work on syncthing for what it is technologically, and what purpose it serves. I don’t want the software I use to become a south american soap opera. I don’t want the software name to make me think it’s alive or that I should be somehow emotionally attached to it. And I don’t care about visual, or emotional as I am not trying to get into a relationship with the software I use. Nor do I believe that the software has a relationship with other software. It’s engineering, bits flying around through the network, in a fashion that is well defined. Software doesn’t live, it doesn’t make unexpected decisions, it does what it’s told to do, there is no ‘alive’ component in it, and I don’t want to be sold a romantic story which tells me otherwise.

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Hmm… I don’t know… :wink:

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Hi,

I am walking in similar shoes. Last few years had similar obsession in my mind: a distributed social network. Studied some of them, some protocols, some implementations etc.

I would like to encourage any kind of efferot. But… but there is a huge but. Did not read the full documentation of syncthing/pulse, but I am afraid that the effort is not equally/fairly distributed for different aspects of the problem. Lot of effort is wasted here on how to brand what names to use. It is a bit like a campaign for elections, you insist on a “non” problem to distract attention from the real problems.

The protocol in question, though I did not study in depth, do not see any huge quantum compared to sthg. like rsync over a secured network (ssh, ssl).

Why?

The major problem with distributed social network (which pulse and its family wants to be) is not how to securely share, but it is important what happens afterwards. Somebody asked and somebody pointed to some other discussion related to what if I sync my stuff with untrusted server? Well, that was an important question. And the problem is not only that. Why? Even if John is a good friend of mine, I do not trust his computer! Not especially if it is an old windows machine full with troians and other mallware. Do not trust the apple computer of Elena or linux guru Steve. Steve is an intelligent guru, but he never encrypts his harddisk. He lost his laptop. All my private photos suddenly got into the hands of somebody I did not want.

Well, for me the number one problem of such a distributed network is not how you sync the files, but how you store and how you un-store.

What do I mean by un-store? Well, one of the “advantage” of facebook for avarage user is that once you get pissed of about smbdy you unfriend him/her. Nowdays friends, especially in sense of social-network (fb) are not forever. What happens if you unfrend somebody on facebook? he/her will not be able to see your data… Well… probably the day will come when more and more people will start to use applications that will save everything of everybody, so this will not work on facebook either.

How could this be implemented with a distributed social network? Almost impossible nowdays (without some extra fancy futuristic hardware). But what can be still done? Share, but share as less as possible? What do I mean? Well, instead of a photo, or a text, just share a small thumbnail, or the beginning of the text. If your pair “clicks” on it, it downloads the full. And it downloads encrypted. What about the key? Well, ideally the key should not be stored on the same device, or not for long term. Ideally a “key” watch should stay attached to your arm. The protocol should be a bit obfuscated in that the key should be downloaded once the user clicks on the stuff. Once the user watched the content, delete the key. Once you are unfriended, the stuff would not be accessed on the remote, as the key cannot be downloaded… If the user uses a “hacked” version then the key can be cached, fine enough, but we hope that most people would use the unhacked one… Keys used with different friends or groups should change often.

About the phone: why would we need a new phone? Why would I be locked? Personally I went through the “openmoko trauma”. Spent 300 euros, and lot of time to find a distro that had minimum applications and worked at decent speed. Since then stuff evolved a lot. Have no problems with google apps as long they access services on my phone I agree. If I will have a distributed network on top of the kernel, do not care which other applications run or even would use the service of the “new” distributed social network.

Again, do not think I am negative about syncthing/pulse. Syncthing seem to be hyper-ok for what it wants to be… Just that building a distributed social network, syncthing is just like the “salt” in the food you are cooking, other major ingredients seem to be missing…

BTW: saw that pulse guys (that is how I landed here) intend to write a swift compiler. I am working on a compiler myself… efforts on this topic could be shared…

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may be wrong about the assumption, but it seems that there is no discussion platform on ind.ie about protocol etc. And I find it that it should be the basic thing…

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See:

Syncthing is still syncthing, a tool for synchronizing files. Pulse and ind.ie is now a separate ship based on syncthing, hence your questions about their implementation details and plans might get answered by @aral if he by accident ends up here, but worst case I suggest you drop an email to hello@ind.ie

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The protocol is the Block Exchange Protocol as detailed here. If you mean about Heartbeat, etc., details will be released when the code is. We are working on it now and following a design-led development process.

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All what we know about Heartbeat is that is based on Pulse, as the sharing protocol would be the major issue… That is what I tried to describe. Can you give a precise date when (if) you would open source your design concepts? The statement “Heartbeat will enter private pre-alpha on Human Rights Day, December 10th, 2014, with a limited release on OS X Yosemite.” Does not help me at all as it does not make any reference to the sources/design. Would be happy even with an answer; " we will never do that etc".

Can you also please answer my other question: “may be wrong about the assumption, but it seems that there is no discussion platform on ind.ie about protocol etc. And I find it that it should be the basic thing…”

… so is there any forum/email list etc. or not? Or I get yet another answer… indie.ie is not about democracy :wink: like I got on apple forum when I raised some questins about swift the language :wink:

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